The following is a transcript from:
PreEmptive E-commerce Podcast Episode #11: – Decision Making and Fatigue
Jon Carmine 0:03
Welcome to the Emptive podcast, where we chat about cloud based solutions that make selling your E commerce products easier, more profitable and effective. In this episode, we’ll be chatting about decision fatigue, what is it? And why are consumers facing it more and more, we’ll also be discussing some of the difficulties the modern consumer faces while trying to decide on a product to purchase and what the future could look like to make those purchasing decisions easier. Hello, and welcome back. We’re here again, after a little bit of a break, as we kind of prepared for coming back for season season two, and this year, we’re really focusing on consumer decision, fatigue and information overload and a lot of the stuff that we’ve we’ve talked about in previous episodes, but kind of focusing a little bit more in this season. So today, we’re going to be chatting about the consumer decision making process, the increasing burden that has fallen on consumers to make the correct buying decision with the rise of online shopping over the last, you know, 10-15 years. And kind of what is this solution? Or what does this solution look like? Because it might not exist yet? A solution for decision fatigue? So yeah, David, what is decision fatigue? We talk about it all the time.
David Waterman 1:31
Tired, I’m tired of talking about. And I think it’s gotten worse. No, I mean, it is just a matter of all the micro decisions and major decisions you make in your, your your life, it’s just gets, I mean, I give him a living walking example of it. And I think even the older you get, or the more involved you get in certain hobbies, or business or work, you just keep piling it up. And in particular, a good instance is shopping, for example, because as you said, you know, used to be there were simpler times, I feel like an old man look at those were simpler times. But with the advent of online shopping, and then with the last with the pandemic, the explosion of it, I mean, it’s really the you know, now it’s all up to you to find the right product you to do the searching. I know there’s places to try to help and whatnot. But it seems like they’re not keeping up with the information we get.
Jon Carmine 2:29
So yeah, so the the the influx of all that information, as we kind of create more digital content, digital space, more stores are available, more shopping, more products, more information, many people experience what you were talking about, they go to shop for something, and they get tired, because they have too many options. They don’t know what to pick, and then they give up. So we’re going to walk through the process, what most shoppers and consumers go through when they try to purchase something. And it’s kind of the purchasing process. And it’s pretty well defined. And I’m sure it will change as time goes on with the advent of more digital things and virtual reality and augmented reality. So the first step is problem recognition. And this is when the customer realizes that they have a need for something or a problem that they want to solve. So yeah, and they have to, you know, figure out where to find that, that relief, and it could be prompted internally or externally. And I think marketing efforts usually focus a fair amount on external, internal could be I’m hungry, or you know, I’m longing for a change in my life. But usually, I think we stick more in the external space, I want this for this. I want to, I want this device or this hammock for my deck. And this is kind of where they formulate and gather that thought process to then move on to the next step. And in the next step, this is information. This is where it gets bogged down information.
David Waterman 4:11
Yeah, overload. This is where it starts to get messy.
Jon Carmine 4:16
This is when they start to research. They use tools like Google or go to a store, they read reviews, they use their past experiences on things that they encountered before to help make this initial impression of products. what’s your what’s your process usually like? Like, let’s say like, you want to go buy something like what do you what’s your first go to? Or you will go your Google guy or are you like an Amazon?
David Waterman 4:42
No, I would be more of a Google Bing guy. And I would do that across those two. I wouldn’t always use Google because I you know, I found that there’s some some products a little better represented on Bing. But the Yeah, I would probably start my search there and then I try to just I just hate to say but I try to avoid in Amazon, and I’ll even go to other big box stores, you know, that have decent search engines or for products depends on the product, right? So of course service, I suppose you’re looking for service, but we’re gonna focus on products, I would say, Yeah, let’s start with Google, though.
Jon Carmine 5:16
I used to be more of a Googler. And then in the more recent years, I would say that I’ve turned more to more toward a YouTube or an A, I do a search for Google not like directly for the product, but for like comparisons or for like, product reviews, your view and then I like to go to the video for me I like, once I find the video, which I find interesting is like on YouTube, you can start to do like the comparisons and like people will have already like done the dryers and kind of for you a little bit. And that’s because of kind of what you started to say about like, Google doesn’t always represent the product better. Right? So you go to depends. It’s interesting, because it’s all an advertising game, a lot of the search engines.
David Waterman 5:59
Now, let me interrupt you there I do. There’s a large appliance or a big, which are much heavier decision processes, right? I mean, you think about a small gadget versus a washing machine, I’ll probably go I’ll start a Consumer Reports. And I’ll work my way backwards, just like a review. I’ll work backwards from what what is it? Because there’s so many options, I won’t go by price usually. So I’ll work my way backwards, then go to Google. Right, and then look for price or something. Yeah.
Jon Carmine 6:28
As I think the you know, there’s a burden that falls on the store owner, and there’s a burden that falls on the shopper. And I think brands, it’s their job to give tools to the consumer to make a decision. And I think, you know, their their viewpoint has always wavered in one direction, right? Because they want you to buy to buy the product. Of course they’re right. And I think sometimes like this is where companies can sound like they’re they’re little preying on people, the way that they present the information. And we’ve talked about this in some of our early podcasts about the urgency that oh, my gosh, you need this, or it’s the end of the world if you don’t have this. And
David Waterman 7:14
that’s really come into play recently. Yeah. You know, supply shortage. I mean, how many times have you heard this, Oh, you gotta buy now, because it’s supply shortage, it can be just complete bunk. But yeah, they’re just playing off of it and your inflation, it’s gonna go up, you know, but,
Jon Carmine 7:28
and consumers tend to trust other consumers more than they trust the brand. And a lot of times, like, blindly follow other consumers, even though they could be fake reviews in for fake information. And we can get to that later. So the next step is the alternative evaluation. And usually, and this is, I think, a stage that’s a bit gray, it really depends on the consumer, how much of an alternative or how many alternative products they kind of put into the running to see who wins. But this is usually where the consumer weighs those options against other options. And they’ve probably narrowed it down to a few products or the service that they they kind of want like a few providers, and they developed in their mind, usually not on paper, unless you’re very, you know,
David Waterman 8:20
no shopper, you’ve,
Jon Carmine 8:23
you’ve developed some sort of criteria or check list in your head conscious or subconscious. That is kind of what your criteria are that you need. And oftentimes, it is very subconscious, which is interesting, because the subconscious mind can make all sorts of interesting discoveries and connections. An example of alternative options could be like a lower a lower price somewhere, that’s a really popular one. Or maybe they have the backpack you want in a color but not in a different color. The other store hasn’t the color, you really kind of want. Right? Sustainability is a hot one these days, that’s not directly connected to the physical.
David Waterman 9:11
Yeah, that’s becoming much more prominent.
Jon Carmine 9:14
So then now we sort of segue into the actual ready to make a purchase, you’re ready to make the purchase right? And go for the goal and you put your money where your mouth is, but hundreds of decisions have kind of led to this point.
David Waterman 9:32
And 1000s Right, right, right
Jon Carmine 9:34
right. So now when you go to make the purchase, are you always like a confident purchaser, like are you like Oh, I know I want this or do you like gosh, I guess I’ll like
David Waterman 9:43
No, no, I I plung and but I do know what you’re saying I know others that would be there like push that button. And and just pray but I generally think I’ve done my homework which may not be true. Do I usually, I convince myself that I’ve done the homework, right? That’s your subconscious, just Hey, you’re good. But yeah, I’m a confident buyer. I’m like, that’s the one I want.
Jon Carmine 10:10
I torture myself. And like sometimes sometimes to like the point where, like, I will like, kind of detract. Keep track of it. Yeah. And like, I will get a little bit of analysis paralysis while bandit, I’ll abandon ship. But I usually if I’ve spent a lot of time researching products, which I usually do, I will come back to it like I can
David Waterman 10:31
come back and beat yourself up. Oh, take a break.
Jon Carmine 10:35
Yeah, I think I have to take a break and step away. But
David Waterman 10:37
it’s probably because your decision fatigue, because again, I’ve
Jon Carmine 10:40
researched so much I’m tired. I’m like, I can’t retire decision at this point. But what I decide I am much like you and the fact that I usually am confident in that decision. And I’m going to take the plunge and accept the risk wherever they may be. And so at this point, the consumer makes the purchase, they made a decision they go through with it. And now here’s an interesting, the interesting follow up. And you talk about this a lot in gathering information about this this phase, because it’s super important, but the post product evaluation, yeah, not just as a consumer, do you go through that process? But also as a store?
David Waterman 11:17
Yeah. Yeah, it’s both it’s a mutual, that’s where the actually the seller comes back into play a little bit more, you know, and could be, it can be even we’ve talked about it before in previous podcasts about follow up and, you know, understanding the customer’s journey and how they, you know, getting the goal is one thing, but was it the correct goal? And are they happy?
Jon Carmine 11:39
And are you Right? Right? Well, and are they going to make another purchase? Right, depending on where your product line is? Most of the time, you want to create a repeat customer? So are they going to come back again? And explore your, your product line? What are the same thing? Of course, because word of mouth, and all that is, is extremely,
David Waterman 11:59
the begging for the begging for a review begins? Yeah, I think the post purchase evaluation part is the part where the seller and the buyer are most back in play together. Although we don’t really always think of it that way. You know, as the buyer, you’re putting that thing together, or you’re using it and you’re evaluating did all that stuff I read and researched? Is it actually doing what I wanted it to do? Or did I get ripped off? Or? There’s so much going on? And sometimes, you know, also, if you don’t know what you’re what you bought? Or you have a question, now you go into support. And you know, you thought that company was great, but now you can’t get on support and you’re frustrated. I mean, we’ve gone through every one of these scenarios, right, right, right, every consumer who’s listening as
Jon Carmine 12:43
and sometimes I think that for a store, there’s this misconception that when they get negative reviews, that obviously the product is 100%. Wrong, or the flaws in the product. And that is not that’s like not always the case, sometimes it’s the wrong customers buying that product, and you need a different customer to buy it. And that’s where that decision making process becomes even more
David Waterman 13:06
mature, trick them into buying it and then they regret it. I mean, it’s Yeah, I mean, it could have been accidental could have been intentional, it could be 100 things. So as
Jon Carmine 13:14
we kind of like talk about this, we talked a little bit about the, you know, I’m uh, I’m sometimes a shopper who tortures themselves and it does a lot of research and you do some research, but then you’re a confident decision maker and you make the purchase. What are some of these profiles that people fall into?
David Waterman 13:32
Yeah, there’s some standard ones, I did a little bit of research prior to our podcasts, just trying to understand the, the different categories that people can fall into as a style. And I should caution This is very manufacturers all over the place, there’s many different opinions on this. And also, people don’t stick in a style. But you were just saying, like, there’s the perfectionist, right, you know, the person who’s going to do every little detail. I know some people like that, you know, which someone’s like, Come on already. You already got enough, you know, I hear the price and value. Yeah, might be more you the price value versus conscious, not it’s not just saying that they don’t, we’re not gonna get it to the effect of whether they have the money but they’re really more geared towards price and, and the value that they’re getting, you know, that’s their driver, that’s their style, some are purely brand and that could also be a good example might be, you know, early young generations and how they attach to a brand you know, and then they just follow with it, you know, the loyalty, novelty or fashion I fall into this one. This is me or the newly created gadget. Yes, yes, yes. i It’s not fashion, but it’s usually on electronics people.
Jon Carmine 14:43
Okay. Ah, yeah, I fall into that too. Yeah, early adopter.
David Waterman 14:47
Early Adopter always want the newest. And I was you know, I was just looking at some stuff beforehand. I had an early I’m gonna get into it, but I had some early products. Now they’re coming out. And I was an early adopter and I was like, ah, I wish these products had been out back then. Confused was one people who are just, you know, open choice file. Yeah. Constantly confused. Recreational shopper, which is kind of, you know, people who just sort of habitual. I know a few people’s scrolling, clicking, shopping, always shopping, never really buying, you know, but that might be a style if occasionally, they nail something and then they buy it. So they’re constantly perusing impulsive, we all know people like that, who really don’t shop or buy, and they just do when they need it, and
Jon Carmine 15:36
adds those quick ads on it. They get they get my demographic on Instagram, but they’re less useful and through and you’re like, you know what I was just talking about that, in fact, and I do need this. One thing this I do need this bird feeder with a camera. Remember I told you about that was bought.
David Waterman 15:56
Mine was that drone that follows you around member I owned one for years, and then I crashed it into a tree when now they come out, they’re a little smarter, they don’t run into trees. Habitual is I think everybody’s got a little bit of habitual and it could be brand loyal, but it’s just your you have, it’s in there. You’re always habitual to what you may have bought before. That’s the brand you bought the way you bought it. Okay, think about your supermarket shopping, you know, some of the more small mundane things. But like I said, every one of those styles is just at a given moment, given time, given space. And they’re all impacted by a number of major factors, I think which actually play a little bit more into your style of buying, right, we think he ever have a style. But then certain things change with age, for example, right? You know, I think that’s a really big one that changes. And when I want to, if I wanted to try to, one of the things we were always talking about is how do I make a decision, you know, test to see where people are and what process they’re using, I think we’d find that their age plays a large role in that. And as you get older, each each each generation looks at everything differently. They seem older people rely more on emotions and experience than reason. So you know, you’re younger? Yeah, I know, maybe reason is more of one of your drivers. Mine might be more emotional or or your experience level.
Jon Carmine 17:18
So yeah, I would say like some circumstance like circumstantial evidence would be that you’ve made a lot of decisions in your life, and you’re tired of making them. And so as you get older, you tend to lean on some of those pre existing thoughts that you develop to make quicker decisions you talk about, like habitual decision making, and that, like we do habits to make it easier for ourselves. And that’s kind of you know, as you get older, you’d probably develop more habits.
David Waterman 17:51
You do and you, as they always say, you’re more stuck in your ways. And that’s, that’s, that’s not really a cliche, because you do become a little stuck in your way. And that’s your, your habitual, you know, that’s why people say you’re stuck. But that just is not true. You just be more habitual. I read one that I thought was good about boomers, which it said that they were they didn’t really enjoy shopping as much. They didn’t like when they were asked the question of, you know, is it a stressful? Or is it a fun thing? They would never say that the I think shopping is a great way to relax, for example, than other age groups. I don’t I don’t, I didn’t follow down that path to find out exactly why. But I thought that’s a good example of where certain generations may find shopping different overall. Right? So I remember we grew up in a mall, so my generation, parents would just drop us off at the mall. It was totally different. So shopping was part of relaxing and having fun and meeting your friends. You know, it was all part of our lifestyle, you know, at the time in high. Yeah, that’s
Jon Carmine 18:51
what we got hanging out with him. I mean, like,
David Waterman 18:53
I don’t know, it’s more online. Right. So, you know, social media. So I do think culture, I found culture was the biggest and this is this is where I mean, if you want to take a deeper dive, and I found that if and this is a statement, not about people in general, but you know, we think a culture, you know, what do you think, right? Do you think of culture in the United States? You know, South culture versus northern culture? East West, you know, Los Angeles, New York? Or do you consider it, you know, France and Germany versus United States or India or China, right. So people who have traveled more, and you know, God bless them, they were able to they can see that culture. What, what I found that was a huge influence in all these decisions across all humans was culture played a very, very large role. And so we could put people in all these boxes, and then culture would completely disrupt anything you think, because cultural come in there and say, Well, I had a couple of good examples. And they were, for example, in Thailand. When you buy a motor Like it’s a family thing, which is it’s so about the family. And so all the marketing is family oriented, right. And so if you wanted to sell a motorbike, you know, as a vehicle in Thailand, you have to be talking family, your family is going to want this. It’s not an individual motorcycle like in the United States, right? So the culture share, right, and the other one was more of a fact that a good example would be, I might want to buy this, I think I brought this one up to, I don’t want to explain who it was. But in my family, there’s one person who’s a very big union person. And so the kids in that family only bought American cars. And I know that they complained over and over, I really want to go buy that tell you it above a blah, whatever, but they can’t. So they may have had all the decisions, and we just went down all these things. But what Trump did at the end was culture. My grandma might not like that, right? You know what I mean? So all of those things that we just mentioned, had a huge play in the decision making process. But it was trumped at the end by I will be looked poorly upon by my family, my community or something of that nature. If I buy that product, that’s what keeps us in line, right? I want that giant red purple hat. But if I walk out, everybody’s gonna look at me and make fun of me. So I won’t buy it. You know?
Jon Carmine 21:18
Yeah. Another one is funerals. Like, in a lot of countries, they don’t send flowers, like I know, in Pakistan and stuff. They they don’t. And in some places, it’s like, almost seen as like, insulting because like assaulting What am I? What am I going to do with this? Like, this is useless. So in the US, we oftentimes send flowers with when people it’s always Yeah, it’s just, it’s interesting how it changes, and we become more global. That’s what’s interesting, too.
David Waterman 21:46
Yes, well, that’s what I meant, if you’re a global company, and you’re listening to this podcast, the culture really, that’s where most companies screw up, it is not in the gender, or in the basic, you know, seven, or, you know, styles of purchasing, it’s culture, culture usually gets, it’s very hard to get right. And you have to have, you have to know what you’re doing. Because you can eat this entire
Jon Carmine 22:08
divisions, Entire divisions that deal with that.
David Waterman 22:12
So, so when I found them, I was all the other stuff plays a role. But I would want to end with just saying that culture seems to be one that really stands out, because we always think that I always do at least you know, when I’m talking about American shopping, you know, in E commerce, but really, that will have no bearing it’s, it’s if you go global, all of these factors can be trumped easily by the culture, and what’s the dorms. So?
A couple more, two more, okay.
Disposable income, huge factor. So, if we don’t really mean can the person afford it, but it’s more like how much disposable income do they have really plays a big role on whether they’ll buy that product, or it’s an impulse purchase, or it’s a brand. So just think of it that way. And the last one is habitual, which we kind of already touched on. Some time, sometimes that one just trumps everything as well. I know, I really want to try this other spaghetti sauce, but I’m always bought this one, I’m just gonna buy it, you know, or it’s easier on the brain not to have to think of a decision, I always get that product. I’ve always liked it, why am I going to try even think of another one? Right? So,
Jon Carmine 23:19
yeah, risk aversion to Yeah, you know, by you know, what the results are with the same or with the habitual piece of doing that act over and over again, and you know, the outcome, and that’s like, risk, like, you’re avoiding that risk of what could come by taking something new, the new spaghetti sauce, you might hate it, have to go back to this, right.
David Waterman 23:39
And you have to go all the way back. But that’s what you mean, your brain just says, Well, this is so much easier of a decision. So that’s why we do a lot of habits. And I think as you get older, you have, you know, unless they have less capacity or anything but you know, you brain gets tired faster. So habits become really easy to just fall back on, you know, you know, that it worked before? Why will I break it? Why change it? You know, that kind of thing?
Jon Carmine 24:02
And so I think fascinating. Yeah, and there are some issues kind of that are happening with the with them the modern age and, and, and shopping, and I skipped over this this segment, but I actually think it fits better here. Before you would go to a store, right? And that store would have already, you know, thought of what kind of consumers are going to come in, what kind of products would solve problems, and then the salesperson would walk you through the process of kind of picking between a few products, you know, you wanted to buy a TV years ago, you might go to Sears, you know, the department stores walk in, they know that you’re gonna fall somewhere in this bracket for what you want. They break it down to three or four products. The salesperson walks you through it, they show you it boom, you’re done out the door now that has changed into the stores. Right. And as all you not only that, but sometimes you have a double combo where you do the research ahead of time, then you go to the store, and then then it’s all Oh, you never know, do
David Waterman 25:10
you hate that? Then you get there, and they don’t have the models that you researched. And it’s a waste of time. Oh, yeah, it’s double work. Yeah. And then the salespeople don’t know the products anymore. I’m not picking on anybody. But they’re not Right don’t care to train them or they’re not. Remember the 20 year old Sue shoe salesman who has been in the same store for 20 years that doesn’t exist anymore, you know,
Jon Carmine 25:29
right. And it’s like, you can’t get that like nuanced information where you used to be able to like when you got a really good salesperson who was like well educated on it. That’s also the changing times of products come in and out. So quickly, technology changes so quickly, and the consumer is well educated on products often, too. So all of this means that you have time, the consumer has to do it all the vetting process to get the last product,
David Waterman 25:58
it’s so it’s just getting worse.
Jon Carmine 26:01
Right. So now I think what, what I have found interesting is, this is a little bit of a turn, but when you shop online Now have you ever run into one of those, those comparison charts that companies give, they’ll be like, Oh, compare our product. Whenever they like gray, the other product, like really bad, I instantly, like I’m like, You’re a liar, like no matter what, cuz I’m like, their product is never that bad, or you’re comparing them to the wrong product you should be right. But every now and again, I will find a company who does a really good comparison. And it looks pretty fair. And I go, wow, I can actually see that these are the different features, I’ll go look at the other product. And usually I come back, because they’ve helped me in some capacity. And I think that’s interesting, at least from a personal standpoint, if they’re friendly and helpful. I’ll tend to go with that product. Anyway, especially with like honesty, for some reason. Yeah. Well, that’s right, whether it’s real or not, whether it’s you know, like be brutally real, but feels it right. So, what are some tools that when we talk about AI and machine learning? What are some tools that consumers are, are using, I think you said you had a really good example with the healthcare industry, where it’s like, not our traditional consumer of like a product, like your consumer service of health care. With a lot of high stakes decisions,
David Waterman 27:32
I found one that I thought was fascinating, not too long ago, and it still sticks in my mind, because I kind of I don’t know, I somehow can put myself in it. And then a little bit due to the pandemic as well, I just sort of have a good, you know, feel it was, was the discussion about how AI is helping believe this was in China, but this is, I don’t believe it’s just one one country, but they were running out of technicians to read the charts in the I want to say X rays or scans, I think like test results. Yeah, yeah, test results for cancer patients, to see, you know, how, what stage they’re in and what you know, what they need to do and what the diagnosis was. And there’s just such a shortage for, you know, obviously, you know, 5 billion people, there’s just not enough doctors and, and then the doctors were getting so burned out. And part of it was the it wasn’t just a decision fatigue, which is what we’re talking about this is the stakes are so much higher. So we didn’t even talk about stakes, but so you know, when you’re buying a can of spaghetti sauce, or the Ferrari or someone’s life, you know what I mean? There’s just different degrees here. And so they employed AI to do preliminary to, to look through the scans and help them out. And I found it to be a wonderful experience for everybody involved, because people were getting the wrong diagnosis. And then the physicians were feeling like shit, obviously, they were horrible, you know, they, they felt bad. And so now everybody’s, you know, at least on a better path. And I thought that was a great use of AI where decision fatigue was really come into play. And it sort of save the day. So, you know, cheers, you know? But right. It’s not really a great example that you could use for products. I’m not sure I could find one exactly like that. Well,
Jon Carmine 29:14
Yeah, there are repetitive things that like that’s like a repetitive sort of process where like, data comes in, data comes out, data comes in, data comes out, and like I know, there’s analysis right. Yeah, right, are very, very good at that sort of that sort of, you know, interaction. And that’s a lot of like CRMs now are doing that with this person comes in, they do these actions. They purchase these products, information in information out. And they’re trying to you know, adapt campaigns and marketing to kind of fit that
David Waterman 29:44
lifestyle. Yeah, once for recommendations. We’ve talked about many, many times recommendation. We have our own Yeah, yep. Yep. Yeah. And then problem solving, which is, you know, trying to find the problem in a very complex problem. I think I can do it really Good. All right. All right. Opinion mining. That was one that, you know, I think AI has a little bit of a lag can provide valuable insight and really help, you know, predict demand, you know, is this product going to be and we were just product is four months out? Well, because they obviously didn’t do a good opinion mining on whether or not that product would sell. analysis we just went over that would be a great example of the doctors using AI. And what’s less one strategic changes?
Jon Carmine 30:31
Yeah, yeah. They’re also the chat bots, the you know, you’re giving advertisements that fit different groups using some AI, dynamic content, hyper localization, predicting what customers do, what they won’t do, what they’ll do when they’ll do it, all that stuff. A lot of times though, the current models that we’ve kind of laid out, help the stores sell more, and this is kind of the problem that we’re going to we’re going to end on in brainstorming kind of some What is it the future? Like? That’s what I said,
David Waterman 31:05
I think the deeper we look into a Jon, the more I realized that almost everything I 90% is really all geared towards selling more and more for the business owner, you know, or the company, not really for the consumer. Which makes sense samples. Yeah,
Jon Carmine 31:23
I mean, money like motors or
David Waterman 31:25
money or rather money. But AI isn’t really helping the consumer, as, for example, that one with the doctors, I would say the consumer got help. Can we find some of those examples? You say? Well, they and I helped them find the right product, they really did it? Or was it the right product? Meaning from that business owners perspective? It was the right product, right? I mean,
Jon Carmine 31:47
right? Are they just waving more products in front of the consumers face? Is it better or better waiting? Right? But yeah, is it like the the more flashy? Like you’re saying that it just attracts them in that sense, you know, and there is some overlap, where like, the consumer does get a better product, maybe, or it helped them make a decision, and they got a better product. And they are, they’re happier with their decision. So there’s a little bit of that. But is that really like what the consumer needs. And I think what you and I kind of are talking about in the future is a need for a third party to come in and help consumers make a decision or give them the tools that is outside of the actual business selling, that focuses on this and helps it helps give the consumer tools to do that.
David Waterman 32:35
I’ll give you an example. That just real quick, you’ve you’ve seen the commercials for Capital One, where they say, and I get the emails, you know, that you bought this product, and you should have used our app, we would have gotten you the discount. And I just got sick of getting those. And I went and looked into it. And I read it’s the most horrible, I don’t want to pick on Capital One, but it was so designed for them. Not for the consumer hobby. Maybe the consumer gets a coupon. I mean, did you ever use that service?
Jon Carmine 33:05
Yes, but I have a lot of opinions on it. So go ahead.
David Waterman 33:08
Okay. Well, it seemed like the data mining that they were doing and the intrusion into your life over what value you were getting was minuscule. You know that that was the take I got, what did you get out of it? Was it really helping people? Did you get have
Jon Carmine 33:21
to say that Capital One is at least cutting edge in the way that they tried to apply actual use real use cases that I use, but also benefit the consumer a little bit? So some of their early stuff is oh, it looks like you tipped twice here. Are you tipped X percent? That’s right. Is that true? Did you mean that love that? Right. I know what you’re talking about the module on the browser, and they actually have a whole kind of site for it. Now, that is scans and looks for prices while you shop. And some of it has actually gotten a little bit better. I will say, I can see what their vision is. But their vision is very much wrapped up and using your credit card to buy things. So it’s very skewed. They have relationships with retailers and everything across the board. So I can’t i No matter how much even if they told me they weren’t. They didn’t have a steak, which I’m sure they don’t they don’t say like I would never trust it. Because it’s just it can’t it really can’t it the way it looks like they’re trying to make money. Correct.
David Waterman 34:24
That’s what I found. I mean, yeah, and again, this isn’t that’s not what the episodes about, and I didn’t want to take us off track. But I was using that as a point where sometimes there’s people saying that they’re helping the consumer. And I just when you dig a little deeper and I could dig into this, I remember when I read and I went, Oh, I’m not touching this because I didn’t want to give out all my shopping data and I had to use their app and and I’m like, What are you doing with all my data? You know, and
Jon Carmine 34:47
Sell, so sell it right.
David Waterman 34:51
So I just backed out of it for that one coupon I might ever need. I don’t want to give you all my data, right? It wasn’t right trade was not worth it. We’ve talked talked about that before in other podcasts, you know, give me my email, but what am I getting back? But I do I mean, I do understand what we’re, you know, are there good examples, and I would have to say I am not finding many, so I can find out where AI has helped people. And I think people does help them in shopping or giving them shopper assistance. I think people as long as they know who they’re talking to, and I think they’re, they’re very friendly, you know, in dealing with AI. But I don’t really find great examples where it’s across, again, Consumer Reports, I’m gonna bring it all the way back around for your job. And the Consumer Reports kind of tries to do that they tell you where to go shop, but I don’t think their information is really up to date. You know,
Jon Carmine 35:41
they might not be presented in the flashy technology way. As you say,
David Waterman 35:45
they have a thing where it’s like, oh, you pick the right product, know where to go, where to go find it where to go buy, right. But so I think necessarily really for
Jon Carmine 35:56
in closing, because we have some other topics that we’re going to cover like kind of counterfeit products and how Walmart, Target some of these other stores are not just selling physical products, but they’re also selling other people’s products online. We’re gonna get to a lot of this in the season as we kind of like go on. But I think ending it here, we’ll leave it on that there needs to be some sort of barrier between the customer and the stores. They’re using all these smart algorithms and these tools to get you to purchase things, but you’re we’re largely standing there with the same toolkit we had 500 years ago, is just just our minds and maybe piece of paper jotting stuff down. Yeah,
David Waterman 36:38
a little better. But yes, I agree. We should dig deeper over the season into that
